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Topic: Steinway or Bösendorfer? (Read 257 times) |
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Dreaden
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Steinway or Bösendorfer?
« on: Sep 22nd, 2002, 1:59pm » |
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After looking around a bit more, I discovered another interesting brand: Bösendorfer.
Has anybody any comment about that piano and the difference with a Steinway (or others)?
I was looking for the Model 200.
My first opinion is that the Bösendorfer sounds a bit warmer with a richer bass, but the Steinway sounded more with a powerful tone.
Is this typical for these brands?
Dreaden.
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DinosaurTales
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Re: Steinway or Bösendorfer?
« Reply #1 on: Sep 23rd, 2002, 5:23am » |
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Two pianos couldn't be more different! i would expect the Steinway to have a more "round" sound - their scales produce more audible harmonics, which many folks refer to as "complex" - and hence, the famed Steinway Sound. In my opinion this is mostly a marketing ploy, and the Bosendorfer will have a more clear, pure sound. to me the treble is almost crystalline in the way it sounds - sort of bell-like. Quite beautiful. Both pianos are wonderful to play, but the Bosendorfer had an incredible touch and action. I believe Steinway builds their own actions, while most of the German high-quality pianos have actions made by Renner, to the manufacturers specs. Sounds like you are looking at 7 foot sizes - the Bosendorfer 200 vs the Steinway B?
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So much music, so little time........
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mahavishnu
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Re: Steinway or Bösendorfer?
« Reply #2 on: Sep 23rd, 2002, 3:56pm » |
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All those people looking for all these exxxxpensive pianos! It makes me want to cry ....poor poor me with a little kawai upright. wahhhhhhhhh jk
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Embracing the authentic self is both the most challenging and most rewarding thing one can do.
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Maestro
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Re: Steinway or Bösendorfer?
« Reply #3 on: Oct 7th, 2002, 8:28pm » |
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People are rarely informed of the vast difference between a Steinway and a Bösenforfer. The former is made in the English tradition of piano building while the other is in the Austrian. The rims of a Steinway and most other brands are bent into the grand shape with either maple or beech whereas the Bösendorfer are vertical slats of spruce as an extension of its soundboard. This creates an "eighteenth century sound" suitable for Mozart and other classical composers. The English method results in a sound with more powerful projection.
If you play many types of music, you might prefer a versatile piano. Other great pianos like August Förster, Petrof, Grotrian, Steingräber, Sauter and Bechstein are some examples. Be aware that the German pianos that have American distributors charge up to twice as much than if you buy one in Europe, Bösendorfer as well.
Because Steinway has been the only concert American piano company to remain and have had a virtual monopoloy in the field, most Americans are totally ignorant of the many wonderful alternatives available from Europe. And these companies are owned by four, five, six and even seven generations of the founding families whereas Steinway is now on their fourth ownership without a Steinway in the factory. Steinways are often sold for greater than their suggested retail prices, whereas some European pianos might cost more, but be obtained for less.
If you have any questions about any pianos, feel welcome to contact me. I have great experience with many of them and information about all of them, including prices........
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STS
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Re: Steinway or Bösendorfer?
« Reply #4 on: Oct 8th, 2002, 5:58pm » |
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I personally think that just because the Steinway is in the 3rd generation of non-steinway owners doesn't mean that the piano is any inferior. Remember that the Bosendorfer was formerly owned by Kimball and the Bechstein by Baldwin. I live in America, and I do understand the dominance of Steinway on concert platforms. But I think most accomplished pianists have played many fine European makes. I think the Steinway's monopoly in America and pretty much the world over has to have a reason behind it. Having played the Steinway and Bosendorfer often, I'm not surprised why the Steinway is dominant. I'm also not suprised why people would like Bosendorfers. I think many pianists like a tone that projects. Thats why many concert halls have a Steinway knowing that most pianists prefer it. And while there are some who haven't played the European brands, most I've spoken to have good experience with them and have commented on them.
But it all comes down to personal preference. I've grown up with Steinways and Bosendorfers(teachers having such instruments) and prefer the Steinway. But others may feel otherwise.
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Maestro
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Re: Steinway or Bösendorfer?
« Reply #5 on: Oct 9th, 2002, 8:18pm » |
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American Steinways would be preferred by most American pianists than the Bösendorfer. But there are others they might prefer if they had any experiences with brands like Fazioli, Grotrian, Bechstein, Steingräber, Förster etc. Under the second ownship of Steinway, CBS, there were deep pockets to withstand the loss for over twenty years. And according to books on the subject, you will find that aside from being good pianos, there were rigged contests, clever endorsement packages etc. that helped to obliterate the other American manufacturers before the financial backing of CBS.
In the past, under CBS ownership, nine foot Steinway grands were placed in all the major cities, given to the dealers for the express purpose of renting them out for concert use. It would be suicide for a traveling artist not to be on the list of Steinway artists. In exchange for being on the list, they were not to publically endorse any other products. Even if they preferred an obscure instrument from Europe they would not find 20 nine foot grands, let alone one in NYC, or 15 in Chicago or 6 in Detroit to choose from when touring those cities.
In the past before World War II, Steinway was much lesser known in the world concert circuit. There were over 300 Bechsteins and 300 Blüthners in Europe in their concert rental programs. All were lost after the war. Most factories were bombed and had to start over. Steinway, being American, and having a factory in Hamburg got the gigantic leap forward in becoming in the forefront.
The concert grands are still being produced to concert standards. It's often the smaller ones that are not in the same league as their larger ones.
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DinosaurTales
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Re: Steinway or Bösendorfer?
« Reply #6 on: Oct 10th, 2002, 6:13am » |
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Very interesting input, Maestro! What you are saying basically confirms what I am discovering in my search. I do like the Steinways, but they are never prepped in the stores when I go to play them. There will be 3 or 4 model B's all lined up, and they all sound and play very differently. I am told "they can be whatever you want them to be", but when I go to another store, where there is a Bluthner, or Fazioli, or Bechstein, or Bosendorfer, or August Forster, they play and sound beautiful right there. No need to "rub out the finish" or "voice" or "regulate the action'. They are just great, right out of the box. I think that Steinway has done some amazing marketing, "selling" pianists on Steinways when they are 9 years old at their first recital. It's all I knew about till I started shopping around. I would definitely recommend looking around before spending $55K on a B.
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martin_s
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Re: Steinway or Bösendorfer?
« Reply #7 on: Oct 12th, 2002, 5:56pm » |
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I am convinced though...
(and it might have to do with the facts that in the 18 or so years, that I have been playing the piano, I have only come across circa 5 decent Bosendorfer pianos!)
You want to buy a Steinway rather than any other European, Asian, African or American brand for the following reason: The extremly high quality and endurance of the Steinway instruments. And as far as personalized, 'ready-made' sound is concerned, remember how Chopin used to prefere an instrument where he had to struggle a bit in order to achive the sound he wanted, rather then what he described as the 'ready-made' sound of some other brands.
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e60m5
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Re: Steinway or Bösendorfer?
« Reply #8 on: Oct 28th, 2002, 2:03am » |
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Just adding my two cents here...
From my experience as a technician, Steinway has by far the larger market share in comparison to Bosendorfer. You might even go so far as to state that Steinway has become mainstream among the top end of pianos.
Bosendorfers are more of a rarity, however. They are also very good instruments, with a great sound.
In this case, though, I believe it all boils down to personal preference. There is no superior instrument. I myself happen to prefer the Steinway sound, yet I also can appreciate the sound that you can get out of only a Bosendorfer Imperial... 
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aerislanne
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Re: Steinway or Bösendorfer?
« Reply #9 on: Dec 19th, 2002, 6:17am » |
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I play a Petrof... I thought nobody's ever heard of a Petrof, because it's so rarely mentioned. I found it at a piano clearance at a music school; played for one year then sold. The dealer promised to replace the piano with a new one if they couldn't get a certain scratch out (hah! they DIDN'T!) so we ended up with a new one. I really love it though. From the Steinways I've played (never played a Bosendorfer, poor me) it sounds a little more bell-like and more mellow? I don't know how to describe it except that I love it.
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RachFan
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Re: Steinway or Bösendorfer?
« Reply #10 on: Jan 6th, 2003, 2:25am » |
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A couple of years ago there was a blindfold acoustical test of concert grands. As I recall, the jury listened to the same pieces played on Steinway, Borsendorfer, Baldwin, and Yamaha. Baldwin won the contest with its SD10, which surprises me not at all. The listeners felt that the Baldwin projected best in the hall. If anyone has heard Ruth Laredo or Earl Wild play a well-prepped Baldwin, the sound is lush and compelling. I just looked briefly on the web to see if I could relocate that article, but couldn't find it on short order. If I see it again, I'll post the URL here.
Incidentally, the house pianos in many music halls in the U.S. are Baldwins. It's true that 85% or so of touring artists bypass the house piano for two reasons: 1) They are listed as Steinway Artists with all the contractual stipulations that go with that acolade, and 2) house pianos, while not neglected, do not get the same TLC as pianos rented out by the dealers. On the other hand, Baldwin Artists freely give their endorsements to Baldwin and are subsequently under no restrictions whatsoever. Thus, the Baldwin Artist designation seems more authentic and meaningful.
I own a Baldwin Model L, but owned a Steinway M previously. I prefer a properly regulated Baldwin.
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