treble and bass clef

[vioguitpia]

Hi there,

I am a new piano student and I play the violin. I am wondering how the pianist can read both treble and bass at the same time while playing. The piano, I think, is the hardest instrument to learn (compared to violin as you need to read only the treble clef) as it involves two types of clefs.

I find that I have  to look up and down the keyboard in order to find the keys while practising, how do you all practise the piano?

[newsgroupeuan]

I also play piano and violin

I am a new piano student and I play the violin. I am wondering how the pianist can read both treble and bass at the same time while playing. The piano, I think, is the hardest instrument to learn (compared to violin as you need to read only the treble clef) as it involves two types of clefs.

As you learn you will find the human brain is more powerful than you think : at first it is hard,  then it gets easier ; it's hard to explain.   Its like to me as if the 1st leger line above the bass clef is the first leger line below the treble.

I still though,  6 years later do think when I play middle C on the piano (on the treble clef):  G-string,  1st position,  third finger,   and when I do a Dmin chord:  Second position,  2nd finger on D and 4th finger on G,  open A.

Well maybe not so much nowadays,  because piano has become my main instrument.

I find that I have  to look up and down the keyboard in order to find the keys while practising, how do you all practise the piano?

At first I did the same.  After a while you find you can do it without looking at the keys.

In a way though piano is slightly less difficult to play than violin as you spend less time concentrating on bow pressure,  tilt and position,  sound etc.

But it is easier to do scales on violin than on piano.   And big leaps.

I prefer piano to violin,  and viola to violin( even though I'm better at violin),  because my fingers are bit to the long side,  and I feel cramped when I play violin.

[bernhard]

Hi there,

I am a new piano student and I play the violin. I am wondering how the pianist can read both treble and bass at the same time while playing. The piano, I think, is the hardest instrument to learn (compared to violin as you need to read only the treble clef) as it involves two types of clefs.

Actually reading music on the piano is easier than in any other instrument: The staff is a faithful diagram of a keyboard. Once you understand how this is true, you will be amazed how easy it becomes provided you train yourself to see it in this particular way. It is simple:

1.      Forget about treble and bass clefs. They are just reminders of where the F line is (Bass clef) and where the G line is (treble clef).

2.      Instead of thinking of two different staves (one in the G-clef and the other in the F clef) think of the piano score as a single, continuous staff with eleven lines, where the middle line has been made invisible. It is there, but you can only see it if a note is placed on this middle invisible line. Middle C in this case.

3.      Now, are you ready for this? It will blow your mind. Each line and each space of this continuous eleven line staff (with an invisible middle line) correspond to a key in the piano. Turn the score 90 degrees to the left and you have it! Of course the lines are not evenly spaced (there is a big gap where the invisible line is), but if they were, and if the score was large enough, you would see that each line and each space corresponds to a key in the keyboard.

4.      Therefore a piano score gives you actual, visual information of where to put your fingers – something that just cannot be done for any other instrument.

5.      All you have to do now is to train yourself to translate this simplified diagram of the keyboard into a real keyboard (in your mind) and place your fingers on the keys (lines/spaces) bearing notes.

I find that I have  to look up and down the keyboard in order to find the keys while practising, how do you all practise the piano?

Maybe this is your case, maybe not. But most beginners try to find notes on a keyboard by locating middle C and then following the alphabet until they get to the note they desire. Don’t do this. It is a terrible waste of time. Instead train yourself to find where the notes are by reference to the black notes. So C is to the left of the group of two black notes. E is to the right. D is right in the middle of the group of two black notes. And so on and so forth. Then train yourself to identify the groups of two and three black notes by touch. Once you memorise this, then you do not need to look at the piano anymore since you will be able to find the keys by touch. In the beginning it is a laborious and slow process and you be tempted to peek. But if you persist in a very short time you get the hang of it and need never again look at the keyboard.

I strongly suggest that you get this book and follow the drills in it. It will get  you there in the shortest time:

Howard Richman – Super Sight reading secrets. (Sound Feelings Publishing)

Best wishes,
Bernhard.

[chopiabin]

Whoa, I never thought about turning the score on its side! That is so cool. Bernhard, you never cease to amaze.