bad habits list

[namui]

After a few months survey on piano techniques, I have found it quite amazing that while there are a few extreme school of thoughts (finger-oriented, arm-oriented, holistic approach, for example), there are so many variations on technique concepts. Interestingly, many concepts contradict each other strongly. Personally, I favor Bernhard's approach because a few advices of his work like magic for my daughter. However, I don't think there can easily be a common agreement among experts concerning what the right techniques are.

So I'm curious to approach this issue from the other side. Eventhough no set of techniques is universally agreed as a perfect one, it might be possible to compile a list of "bad habits" that most experts agree that they should be eliminated. I searched this forum and a few other web resources, but have found that "bad habits" have been mostly mentioned without much elaboration.

Could you folks help providing your own list of "bad habits" ? At least so that they will exist here as a reference. Everyone is invited.

[bernhard]

After a few months survey on piano techniques, I have found it quite amazing that while there are a few extreme school of thoughts (finger-oriented, arm-oriented, holistic approach, for example), there are so many variations on technique concepts. Interestingly, many concepts contradict each other strongly. However, I don't think there can easily be a common agreement among experts concerning what the right techniques are.

This reminds me of a story. Two guys went travelling on the mountains by car. When they approached a stretch of road that was sided by abysses on both sides, the guy sitting o the passenger seat became quite anxious, and kept saying to the driver: “to the right! To the right!”. A moment later he would say “to the left! To the left!” after a couple of minutes of this, the driver said, quite irritated: “Will you please stop giving me contradictory instructions?”

A lot of what you see as contradictions are not really so. They appear to be contradictory partly because:

1.      Language. Sometimes it is difficult to put certain instructions in words.
2.      Context. Much wonderful advice in a certain context will be quite wrong in a different context.
3.      “The elephant in the dark syndrome”. You may know the story of the five blind men who had never came across an elephant. When a circus came to their town they saw it as an opportunity to finally experience a real elephant. They were allowed to touch the elephant, and later on they met to talk about it. The first one said: “an elephant is like a pillar” (he had touched the leg). The second one said: “no, no, no, an elephant is like a wall!” (he had touched the body of the elephant). The third one said: “You two are crazy! An elephant is like a snake!” (he had touched the trunk). The fourth one said: “You ignorant fools! An elephant is like a large sheet of rough paper” (he had touched the ears). The fifth one said: “You are all idiots! An elephant is like a piece of curved piping!” (he had touched the tusks). There is no contradiction between the several descriptions once you realise they are all correct, but partial descriptions
4.      Finally, some of the directions given by some of the forum members are simply wrong. So, of course they will contradict correct information. It is up to you to sort out the good stuff from the bad stuff.

So I'm curious to approach this issue from the other side. Eventhough no set of techniques is universally agreed as a perfect one, it might be possible to compile a list of "bad habits" that most experts agree that they should be eliminated. I searched this forum and a few other web resources, but have found that "bad habits" have been mostly mentioned without much elaboration.  

Although your question is very interesting, It is important not to give too much energy to bad habits. The best way to deal with bad habits is not to fight them, but instead to replace them with good habits instead.

There is a nice line on the Iching which says some thing on the lines of:

”Do not fight evil, for to fight evil is to give it energy. Instead, make resolute progress on the way of good”

Could you folks help providing your own list of "bad habits" ? At least so that they will exist here as a reference. Everyone is invited.

Here are a few (by no means exhaustive)

1.      To keep practising what one already knows.
2.      To play a piece from beginning to end several times (with mistakes) instead of stopping and dealing with the mistakes once and forever.
3.      To work without a short/medium/long term plan.Or in other words: to jump form piece to piece without ever perfecting any. Working in such a way that the daily work does not add to anything at the end of a week/month/year.
4.      To practise without a clear and specific aim for every practice session.
5.      To practise mechanically (which often means unintelligently), that is, no thought is given to the possibility that the practice strategy being used may be unsuitable for the problem.
6.      To practise by time rather than for results.
7.      To constantly rush through pieces at top speed.
8.      To try to tackle pieces that are too difficult. To try to tackle sections of a piece that are too large for a practice session. To try to learn a whole piece in ten minutes.
9.      To stop practising the moment you get it right. (it is when you get it right that you should start practising!)
10.      To practise mechanically without focus, concentration or mindfulness.
11.      To keep changing fingerings.
12.       Always starting to learn a piece from the beginning, and then never finishing it.
13.      Avoiding the difficult bits of a piece and leaving them to learn/practice last.
14.      practising a piece in section but not overlapping them, so that when the time comes to join the bits, ther is an inbuilt hesitation at the seams.
15.      Playing only by memory.
16.      Playing only by reading the music.
17.      Playing only by ear.
18.      Procrastinating practice.
19.      Bad posture.
20.       Angling the hand to help the thumb reach the keys (this puts pressure on the carpal tunnel on the outside of the wrist, and msy eventually cause carpal tunnel syndrome).
21.      Misaligning the joints from the shoulder girdle down to the nail joint.
22.      Breaking the nail joint (either way)
23.      Using the heels of the hands to support the weight of the body on the piano (this is usually caused by having the feet tucked under the bench – another very bad habit)
24.      Elbows too close to the body (they should be a fist away).
25.      When the teacher requests the student to do something to answer “I can’t!” of course you can’t .We know that. If you could, you would not need to come to lessons.
26.      Too much pedal.
27.      Playing too loud.
28.      Playing too soft.
29.      Playing too near the edge of the white keys.
30.      Sitting too low (if the knees are above the hip bones you are sitting too low).
31.      Long nails.
32.      Being late for lessons.
33.      Being too early for lessons.
34.      Forgetting to bring the music/assignment book for lessons.
35.      Being disorganised with the music.assignment book.
36.      Playing random stuff while the teacher is explaining something.
37.      Believing one can cut corners.
38.      Paying late.
39.      Not paying.
40.      Constantly arguing with the teacher instead of following instructions.

Just the tip of the iceberg.

Best wishes,
Bernhard.

[namui]

A lot of what you see as contradictions are not really so. They appear to be contradictory partly because:

1.      Language. Sometimes it is difficult to put certain instructions in words.
2.      Context. Much wonderful advice in a certain context will be quite wrong in a different context.
3.      “The elephant in the dark syndrome”.  .....

For the above three causes, may I summarize them as "problems about teaching" or "problems about communication" rather than "fundamental technique incompatibility" ?

4.      Finally, some of the directions given by some of the forum members are simply wrong. So, of course they will contradict correct information. It is up to you to sort out the good stuff from the bad stuff.

This is the one I found to be the issue. Let's try to look from a viewpoint of a young child who is struggling with  piano studies. S/he wouldn't have ability to realize whether it is because s/he doesn't understand the teacher correctly (communication), or the teacher is in fact supplying a wrong concept about the matter.

Although your question is very interesting, It is important not to give too much energy to bad habits. The best way to deal with bad habits is not to fight them, but instead to replace them with good habits instead.

As I implied in my first post, I would rather develop a list of "good habits" if possible. However, it seems like good habits are more diverse than I first thought.

AND THEN ... wow ... what a list !! ...

Could I categorize the first 18 of your list as "attitude towards practicing" ? By the way, no.5 and no.10 are pretty related.

No. 19-24 and No.29,30 are things I generally found being commented by piano teachers. Could I categorize them as "technique related" ?

And then, I would like to categorize No.25-28, No.31-37, and No.40 as "attitude towards learning".

And finally, well, No.38-39 are ... Yeh ... truely BAD HABITS  

[Spatula]

I might want to print this off...

[Spatula]

How about cracking your knuckles?  Does it do any real harm?   :-/

[janice]

How about cracking your knuckles?  Does it do any real harm?   :-/

Yeah, I'm curious about this also

[goalevan]

Cracking your knuckles is not good for your joints and can cause arthritis on the long run

[liszmaninopin]

I second everything Bernhard said, and, unless I missed it, would like to add a few more performance related things:

1.  speeding up in middle of piece
2.  having such ridiculous dynamics and expression that it becomes a caricature of the piece
3.  thinking about other things while actually performing
4.  playing in a boring fashion or "monotone"
5.  practicing excessively on the day of performance
6.  wearing shoes with very stiff soles (it bothers me, anyway)
7.  wearing clothes that don't fit

These may seem trivial and obvious, but I've had bad experiences with each of these things; suffice it to say that, for me anyway, these are habits best avoided in performance.

[bernhard]

Cracking your knuckles is not good for your joints and can cause arthritis on the long run

There is no evidence that cracking knuckles causes arthritis. Read more about it in this thread:

https://www.pianoforum.net/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=misc;action=display;num=1076380751

Best wishes,
Bernhard.

[ted]

My bad habits are peculiar to me. In recent months I have made real progress in reducing them so I don't want to be too hard on myself. They all concern improvisation. Looking through Bernhard's list, I can see only one or two peccadillos I have with playing and learning pieces, and at my age I think they can stay there.

In improvisation then:

1. Lapsing into what I term "negative attractors" - physically facile patterns and modes of thought dependent on momentary convenience and derivative ideas from the past.

2. Too little conscious thought.

3. Too much conscious thought.

4. Playing as if somebody were listening to me.

5. Failure to be myself. Allowing another's idiom to be a goal in itself and letting it override my own creative direction. There's nothing quite as futile as living somebody else's musical dream.

[goalevan]

Hmmm interesting.. I thought I learned that in school once, NM that

[bernhard]

My bad habits are peculiar to me. In recent months I have made real progress in reducing them so I don't want to be too hard on myself. They all concern improvisation. Looking through Bernhard's list, I can see only one or two peccadillos I have with playing and learning pieces, and at my age I think they can stay there.

In improvisation then:

1. Lapsing into what I term "negative attractors" - physically facile patterns and modes of thought dependent on momentary convenience and derivative ideas from the past.

2. Too little conscious thought.

3. Too much conscious thought.

4. Playing as if somebody were listening to me.

5. Failure to be myself. Allowing another's idiom to be a goal in itself and letting it override my own creative direction. There's nothing quite as futile as living somebody else's musical dream.

Yes.

No. 5 especially is a real killer. And yet so difficult to resist...

[Spatula]

But cracking your knuckles does effect playing right? I dunno cause I cracked for about 6 years now...yikes

[faulty_damper]

No.  It's a myth perpetuated by those who choose not to find out if it is true.

Some people who crack their knuckles do develop arthritis.  Some people who eat spinach latter go on to be murderers.  All people who breathe air latter die.

Do you see how the rationale is wrong even though it is through observations?  The problem is that the person wrongly associates one thing as being the cause.

No, popping air bubbles in your joints do not cause arthritis but some people who crack their joints latter go on to be mass murderers.

[newsgroupeuan]

Ahhh... But when you pop your joints,  the pop comes from part of your joint accelerating over the speed of sound for a nanosecond or so...surely that can't be good

[bernhard]

Ahhh... But when you pop your joints,  the pop comes from part of your joint accelerating over the speed of sound for a nanosecond or so...surely that can't be good

Have a look at this thread:

https://www.pianoforum.net/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=misc;action=display;num=1076380751


Best wishes,
Bernhard

[allchopin]

3.  thinking about other things while actually performing

Hmm..  disagree, partly because not concentrating sometimes can actually help you concentrate.  By this I mean clearing your mind of whatever you are thinking about takes stress off your brain, so to speak, and allows the music to flow easier.  If you are able to play piece X well without thinking about it, then that comes in handy later on (such as worrying about the audience or who is watching you when it comes time for the real deal).  Overthinking a piece can destroy it.

[liszmaninopin]

What I meant was, at least for me, thinking about totally unrelated things during performance is not good.  I like to maintain a neutral concentration on what I'm playing.  If my mind wanders to "what will I be having for dinner tonight" or, especially, "this is going really well..." then I might have problems.

[glamfolk]

A performance habit that has been common in my students is the stop motion when chording.  In other words, the student will find the chord shape, place their hand or hands over it, and then readjust their hands for a moment so as to make the notes come out perfectly.  Finally, the student ends up just  pressing or massaging the key all the way to the keybed.  This affects the rhythm and tone fundamentally.  I takes quite a while of working on note attacks and arm approach to work this out, but the result is usually more confidence and accuracy in playing.  

Abby Whiteside's approach helps this.

just something I've noticed.  

[bachmaninov]

I'll tell you one bad habit that I get very annoyed when
I see a performer do...

Using.. or even placing the foot on the pedal during a BACH piece...

**There was no pedal back then!!! ITS CALLED LEGATO!

[bernhard]

I'll tell you one bad habit that I get very annoyed when
I see a performer do...

Using.. or even placing the foot on the pedal during a BACH piece...

**There was no pedal back then!!! ITS CALLED LEGATO!

Er…

Is it a bad habit to play Bach on a piano?  

The most outstanding distinction between conventional piano pedalling and that required for Bach’s music consists in not employing the sustaining pedal through long passages even when the harmony may appear to permit it. It usually detracts rather than adds brilliance in fast, forte passages, and is never used for lavish colour effects. On the whole, this pedal is employed sparingly, not for reasons of theoretical purism but simply because its function as a continuous sustaining device is less valuable for Bach’s structures than for other kinds of music.

However it is of great value as a final aid to legato where the complexity of parts or weaving of lines makes it impossible for the fingers to manage a true connection. To achieve legato with the pedal, press the right pedal down momentarily between the notes, that is, catching with the pedal the end and beginning of the two sounds to be connected. This must be done on the whole with so brief a duration that the quality of sound in the lines is not changed by its use and its employment cannot be discerned by the listener. Connecting chords may be treated in this way as well. The right pedal may also be used to enhance quality, viz. on long-valued sustained tones or in melodic passages. This change of quality from the damped drier tone also gives the performer a valuable and subtle addition to his tonal palette by contributing exquisite possibilities of play in tone colours between singing and varied dry, detached or staccato effects. The practice of quality changes is entirely in keeping historically with the subtle changes of colour possible on the clavichord through touch and on the harpsichord through its registrations.

(Rosalyn Tureck – An Introduction to the Performance of Bach – Oxford University Press).

Best wishes,
Bernhard.

[faulty_damper]

I recently discvered that if I allow the bass strings to vibrate while I play Bach's Fugues, those strings resonate and sound like it is being played in a cathedral.  Very nice effect!  The music sounds more filling and complete.

Try it!
With a sostenuto pedal to hold the bass string dampers, whichever sounds best, you can then play the fugue.  Just press the bass keys without sounding the strings, apply the sostenuto, and release the keys.  

But if you have the sostenuto action that just raises the bass dampers, then it might not work very well as you may have to play the notes that the bass dampers are held.

[janice]

4. Playing as if somebody were listening to me.

What's wrong with that?

[ted]

Hi Janice.

I was referring solely to improvisation and solely to my own playing. I find that if I slip into doing this it impedes the flow of ideas because I begin consciously thinking about the possible effect of what I am playing. That interrupts the mental feedback loop and shuts out the unconscious, thereby strangling spontaneity and transportation.

In performance generally, to be concerned with effect is of course essential, and it is certainly possible to improvise solely at the conscious level - people do it professionally all the time and it can sound very accomplished - nothing wrong with that.

For me, however, it is a bad habit because my musical objectives have little to do with the above way of playing. For you it may well be a good idea to consciously "perform" because your goals are very different to mine.

Essentially I was compiling a list of personal bad habits rather than general ones.