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Topic: Beethoven's Emperor Concerto (Read 7365 times)

mcgillcomposer

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Beethoven's Emperor Concerto

on: June 15, 2007, 08:38:09 PM

Hey everyone,

I need some advice on how to convincingly play the trill in the opening theme of the third movement. It always comes across as a sort of smudge when I play it. In all honesty, I never really worked very hard on the opening, so I learned it quite superficially. Do you think some intense practice would be enough, or is there a specific techincal issue I should be aware of?

Thanks very much.

- Drew

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prongated

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Re: Beethoven's Emperor Concerto

Reply #1 on: July 24, 2007, 01:44:16 PM

I use 3-5 and I don't hold down the F after I play it with my 2nd finger

https://www.pianostreet.com/smf/index.php/topic,24050.msg289063.html#msg289063

...can you distinguish but?

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pianistimo

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Re: Beethoven's Emperor Concerto

Reply #2 on: July 24, 2007, 02:27:49 PM

i've never played the emperor - so maybe prongated knows why he would use 535 instead of 5232323. i cannot trill very well between 3 and 5. some people can. my pinky is short. it would be unbearably awkward for me - and 523 23 23 much more even.

trills can be practiced in groups of 2, 3, 4 and so on. some prefer to stick with three so the trill is even. not sure what this one calls for -but i'd imagine some evenness with maybe a thrill on the main down beat so that you don't forget how many you've done.

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amelialw

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Re: Beethoven's Emperor Concerto

Reply #3 on: July 24, 2007, 08:22:50 PM

I've never played it before..my teacher almost gave me this concerto but I picked Schumann instead. I would use the fingering 5232323...

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J.S Bach Italian Concerto,Beethoven Sonata op.2 no.2,Mozart Sonatas K.330&333,Chopin Scherzo no.2,Etude op.10 no.12&Fantasie Impromptu

prongated

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Re: Beethoven's Emperor Concerto

Reply #4 on: July 24, 2007, 11:49:17 PM

...I still hold down the D with my thumb...you are meant to hold down both D and F while trilling...in any case I don't want to cheat too much

...and I think I do 4 notes per quaver.

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jlh

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Re: Beethoven's Emperor Concerto

Reply #5 on: July 25, 2007, 01:32:20 AM

I don't have the score handy, but I would guess the difference might be similar to the 2nd piano in prongated's video... lol

Seems it would be hard to keep the D down when doing 232323...

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mcgillcomposer

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Re: Beethoven's Emperor Concerto

Reply #6 on: July 25, 2007, 10:38:01 AM

Wow, thanks for the answers. I should have made a post indicating that I'd already solved the problem. It's all about the initial impulse...the fingers seem to automatically do the rest (for me at least). Thanks again!

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Asked if he had ever conducted any Stockhausen,Sir Thomas Beecham replied, "No, but I once trod in some."

ramseytheii

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Re: Beethoven's Emperor Concerto

Reply #7 on: August 01, 2007, 02:18:34 AM

Quote from: mcgillcomposer on June 15, 2007, 08:38:09 PM

Hey everyone,

I need some advice on how to convincingly play the trill in the opening theme of the third movement. It always comes across as a sort of smudge when I play it. In all honesty, I never really worked very hard on the opening, so I learned it quite superficially. Do you think some intense practice would be enough, or is there a specific techincal issue I should be aware of?

Thanks very much.

- Drew

I think it is not necessary to hold on to the chord with your fingers. But if you wish too, and many do, and I think that is a noble pursuit, you have to make sure to place a well-timed caesura before the trill. The hand action has to start over, put an accent on the first note, and play the other notes lighter.

Walter Ramsey

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clintonjohnson9606

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Re: Beethoven's Emperor Concerto

Reply #8 on: March 22, 2011, 04:01:15 PM

Hello Drew,

I have a few suggestions for you.

Rather than only think of how to practice this one bar, my piano professor would encourage you to look at some etudes and exercises. I believe you should look to Buonamici and Busoni for etudes and exercises, as well as focusing on this one bar. Buonamici and Busoni can be easily found on Amazon.com and other places. I, myself am trying to learn this piece. I'm having a great deal of fun with it. Czerny's (G. Schirmer) velocity exercises will help with pinky flexibility, no matter how small your pinky. Liszt/Busoni's Complete Etudes will definitely help (printed by Dover Publications).

I also listen to recordings of the piece. If you use one of the Notation programs, like Finale or Sibelius, you can write the bar in and hear it played correctly. I do this all the time. It helps me to put things in the correct rhythm.

Hope this helps,

Clinton

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thepianist09

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Re: Beethoven's Emperor Concerto

Reply #9 on: April 22, 2013, 03:59:13 PM

I would recommend 52525252... this has always worked well for me.

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Music is the greatest subsitute for words. In a life where we cannot succeed at work and we fail with women there is music which can tell anyone our words, words in which we want to scream but cannot!

chopin2015

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Re: Beethoven's Emperor Concerto

Reply #10 on: April 22, 2013, 04:25:04 PM

If you don't want to play dry without pedal but pedal makes it smudgy, try holding sostenuto somewhere before or during the trill...

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"Beethoven wrote in three flats a lot. That's because he moved twice."

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